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What top do you, or your clients prefer for finger-picking/light strumming? With what guage-light, medium etc. strings?

I would go for a cedar top with lights. Mind you, my sikta spruce tops on both guitars I own are great for fingerpicking.

If the tone your looking for is mid range orientation and just a bit dark for smooth malonic melodies I like Koa, Redwood, Cedar. But if you want a more bright ringing tone the Carpathian, Lutz, Adirondack even Sitka spruce. To say For a finger style top is not enough info to make the choice. for an all round good finger-style I really do like Koa over IRW back and sides. But the music I tend to play is very malonic Things like Leader of the Band by Folgelberg and some Tracy Chapman.

Euro baby......Euro!

Homeboy

I'll second the European.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Now all you guys know I'm going to say that for SS guitars Euro is by far the best there is for fingerpicking, though I also like cedar when used with mahogany. Interestingly these are the first choice woods for the classical builders where less energy is available to drive the top. For the US spruce species, from what I've seen of it with the boards I have, I'd have to go with Shane's Lutz.

I've built 20 or so guitars with Euro tops now, and in fact I've replaced the tops of the two early guitars I built using Sitka with Euro. It's ability to express a range of tones with differnt playng is unmatched. And if you can wait a couple of hundred years, the sound is like angels singing. Ijust love it!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

bump

Bob,

It's what's on the underside of the top that's probably the most important together with what you do with the top as part of the total design.

It also depends what you mean by "fingerpicking". Michael Hedges used to pick a lot with his fingers as did the late great Eric Roche.

But I'd reach for the Euro first, but would also go for cedar/maple. Lights (0.012"-0.054") as that's what I build for.Dave White39041.5212268519

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I fingerpick them all, but my favorites are WRC and Engleman Spruce. I use Light strings on everything. I have not tried the hybrid Lutz Spruce yet, but I have heard great things and plan to in the future. As I understand (which is subject to being wrong) the Lutz is a type of natural cross between the Sitka and Engleman varieties.

Food for thought, AC Tonewoods has some wild looking WRC on their web site and I have purchased two of the Tops and really love the look, grain and tap tone. Also, they have a type of Engleman that is very well priced for both Steel and Classical referred to as HAA (don't have a clue what that stands for) and I have purchased a couple of those and really like them as well, creamy white in color.

Mike

When you guys say Euro spruce, regarding your favorites, how is it sold.....what name, region, country is it from?

Thanks,
Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

I believe They mean almost any of the European Spruce species that are commonly used for tonewoods such Lutz , Carpathian, Caucasian and others.

All true European spruce is the same species: 'Carpathian' is something else, I think. At any rate, like all spruces, it varies depending on where it was grown and, more importantly, from tree to tree.

I've recently begun to measure the stiffness and density of all my top wood as it comes in. There's a _huge_ amount of variation. For example, most of my Englemann spruce tops have been on the light and soft side, but the latest batch has been as dense and stiff as any of the Red spruce I've tested. I have one western red cedar top that is an _exact_ match in most of its properties to a Red spruce one, the only difference being in the damping factor. In theory those two pieces of wood should be made the same thickness, braced the same, and yeild the same tap tones. We'll see if the two guitars sound the same!

Generally speaking, the lighter weight the top is for a given size guitar the louder it will be. Because the absolute stiffness of a piece of wood is proportional to the Young's modulus and the cube of the thickness, it turns out that density is much more important than Young's modulus in determining the weight of the top. So, for a light top you want a low density piece of wood with reasonable stiffness, and then you just leave it thick enough to work right.

In practice, you can get away with denser wood on steel strings than classicals. Greater density does seem to give more 'headroom', and the harder they get played the more benefit there is to using a dense wood. Thus, Red and Sitka, which are both relatively dense for spruces on average, work well for flat picking instruments, while the normally less dense Englemann and Euro seem to be the choices for fingerstyle and classical boxes. Cedar tends to be even less dense tha Englemann, usually. Again, these are _averages_; you really have to look at each piece of wood individually to be sure of what you're getting.

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth] All true European spruce is the same species: 'Carpathian' is something else, I think. [/QUOTE]

Alan, Carpathian is also just a regional name for the usual Picea abies.

There is another 'European Spruce' species that is native to the far eastern side of Europe that is sometimes used, but not very often now, that is Picea orientalis, or 'Caucasian Spruce'. Many people may have built with it thinking they had P. abies, as it is sometimes grown for timber in, among others, Italy and Austria, and can get mixed in with P.abies. It grows to about the same size as P'abies but is recognisable from it's much shorter needles.

I've got four tops of it which are waiting for projects, probably lutes.


Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=MichaelP] I believe They mean almost any of the European Spruce species that are commonly used for tonewoods such Lutz , Carpathian, Caucasian and others.[/QUOTE]

Michael,

Canada may have been part of Europe once but Lutz is Sitka hybrid with white spruce or Engelmann - depending on altitude - as Shane has told us in his "pictorial" posts some time back. It is fabulous wood and the closest N.American to Euro I have seen.

Alan,

Paul Hostetter has this interesting article on his website re European spruce.Dave White39041.6699537037

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

That is right but I did think that Carpathian was a Picea abies

[QUOTE=MichaelP] That is right but I did think that Carpathian was a Picea abies[/QUOTE]

Michael, Carpathian IS just another name for Picea abies, from the Carpathian mountains. Same species as Italian Spruce, Swiss Spruce, German Spruce, etc. etc.

In fact the most usual common name for Picea abies in non-luthery circles is Norway Spruce!

As I said above there is another European species that has been used for instruments that is Picea orientalis or Caucasian Spruce.


Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Someone's gotta say it, and I guess I might as well be the bad guy: try Sitka. I've had real success with it, and have been pleased with what that species can offer up. I've been getting really great tops from Larry Trumble (Wood Marine). He doesn't sell that plantation-grown Sitka that was harvested in Iowa, which is what I think Colin must have gotten hold of.   

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Thanks so much for all the great info guys.